Did ya miss us? Summer break is over for the Bogster Family, (Ireland was delicious!) and now we are back with a few community things we would like to let you know about.
As always, if you do not wish to receive future BogNews just send us an email back to let us know to remove you from the list.
First Friday Music! This Friday, Sept. 6th, from 6 – 9 pm at the El Rio Golf cantina (1400 W. Speedway) will be “Music Night” brought to you by the Barrio Hollywood Neighborhood Association and friends. Eat, drink, sing and be merry.
This one include the return of “The Wholigans” (some new songs from Ireland) as well as memorial songs from the group “Kindred Spirits” on the passing of their member, Bo Ongley, a good friend, songwriter/singer, and loyal spouse. Other local musicians will be there as well. We hear that La Cantina will also be serving their legendary pulled pork sandwiches! (There is also a fully stocked bar for your enjoyment). Please come and support your local musicians! IT’S FREE!!!
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The following is a message from the Tucson Residents for Responsible Government (TRRG). As you can see, the City of Tucson is again up to its old tricks with redistricting (trying to divide our barrios), inappropriate re-zonings, more ADU shenanigans (we warned you!), and other items that may affect your neighborhood. Please read this and feel free to distribute to anyone who you think may be interested:
Neighborhood Leaders, Friends and Active Residents,
There are several actions being taken by the City that may have great impacts in our neighborhoods and on our streets. Please pass the word along to your representative groups and friends. The more of us who take notice and get involved, the better the outcome for all of us.
· Redistricting. This week, the City Council approved an item on the Consent Agenda (Item 7j) that details the members of the 2024 Redistricting Advisory Committee (RAC) and, most importantly, “clarifies the review criteria” to be used by the RAC when making recommendations to redistricting.
Redistricting is when areas of the City (precincts) are moved from one ward to another to balance out populations for electoral purposes. Since our City Charter requires us to redraw ward boundaries every four years, any changes made this year will be in place until 2028.
Redistricting can affect minority voting strength, but it can also be used to split up neighborhoods between wards or move them from one ward into another ward. The meetings of the RAC are open to the public and they are mandated to report back to Mayor and Council by Nov 20, 2024. To view the ordinance and the base map of current districts go to this link. See item #7j.
We will send you the dates for the Redistricting Committee meeting when they become available.
· Bear Canyon Neighborhood Association (BCNA) rezoning. The BCNA is seeking public support in their opposition to a rezoning called Casita Village at La Mariposa. They have a website that explains their issues with the proposed rezoning, and a petition to sign if you agree with their opposition to the project.
According to their Facebook page, “If you care about flooding risk, increased traffic, environmental conservation, archeological integrity and violation of the 1984 BCNP Agreement, you’ll want to sign this petition to stop the rezoning and construction of Casita Village at La Mariposa”. Get more information and sign the petition, go to https://www.stopcasitavillage.org.
The project made the news recently and you can read about the group, the project and the concerns by going to https://www.kgun9.com/news/community-inspired-journalism/eastside-news/eastside-neighbors-against-luxury-casita-community-development.
The public hearing is tentatively scheduled for the Sept 25 Mayor and Council meeting – having as many people there to voice their concerns or support the neighborhood association will be crucial in determining the outcome. We will update you with the actual date.
· Accessory Dwelling Units (ADUs). ADUs are in the news again. After the governor signed a bill that allows the state legislature to dictate ADU conditions in Arizona cities and towns, even communities like Tucson, that spent a year and a half developing policies, are now forced to change their land use codes to accommodate the wishes of the state legislators. Of concern is the fact that the legislation defined an ADU as a “dwelling unit that may include a kitchen.” Since we currently have ‘sleeping quarter’ as allowable structures, and this now falls under the definition of an ADU, when the City changes our code, we would like “sleeping quarters” to removed from the code, since this could lead to additional units being built on a single property.
The Planning Commission is set to have a Study Session about this item at their September 4, 2024 meeting. It will be held in Mayor and Council chambers, starting at 6PM, with doors opening at 5:30PM. The public hearing on the proposed changes has not yet been scheduled. For more information about the study session and to download the agenda, go to
We will send out word when the public hearing gets scheduled for the Planning Commission to make their recommendations to Mayor and Council.
· Corridor Redevelopment. In August, the Planning and Development Services Department (PDSD) held two meetings about potential changes to the Unified Development Code, to make it easier to promote high density, mid to high-rise development along Tucson’s “corridors”.
The city is defining “corridors” as ALL arterials and collectors, so all major streets like Grant and Speedway and all smaller streets, like Pima and Columbus may be subject to these changes. The city is representing this as a way to increase affordable housing, but NO affordable requirements will be part of this proposal. Instead, it is part of a “trickle-down” concept, hoping that more luxury units will flood the market and drive down the value of surrounding properties.
The Corridor Redevelopment project is in response to a request by Mayor and Council for PDSD to explore options for “removing barriers to affordable housing”. One meeting was virtual and can be viewed at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9PP9U5FLic.
You can get more information about the project at https://corridors.tucsonaz.gov/.
This process is being rushed through and needs scrutiny by all residents, as the impact to our neighborhoods will be lasting and possibly irreversible. At the August meetings, we were told that Mayor and Council will vote on the changes by December – so starting the process in the heat of the summer, rushing it through hearings in the fall, and when people are distracted by national elections and holidays, is a poor way to make public policy. The online survey was turned off after a very short time, so the only way to comment currently is to contact the lead planner, Dan Bursuck (daniel.bursuck@tucsonaz.gov).
· Neighborhood Plans. Word has been spreading that the City plans to sunset Neighborhood and Area Plans, such that they will no longer be a guide for development within established neighborhoods. Whether the intention is to declare the plans outdated, or whether changes to the Unified Development Code will make them obsolete, or whether PlanTucson 2025 will eviscerate resident input via the Future Growth Scenario Map is not clear.
We will update you on the future of our Neighborhood and Area Plans when we receive more information. Residents asking staff directly at various planning meetings is one way to bring the issue to the forefront.
· Plan Tucson. Plan Tucson is now officially in Phase 3. Planning and Development Services Department (PDSD) staff are in the process of writing the draft of the 2025 Plan. Despite numerous meetings and surveys, it appears that many of our concerns have not been incorporated into the new plan. Our concern is that neighborhoods and neighborhood issues are almost entirely lacking in any of the Goals and Policies that we have reviewed to date. To read about the update, you can go to the City’s website at https://www.plantucson.org/.
In the latest PDSD Newsletter it was announced that Phase 3 Working Sessions are scheduled for late September into November and are accepting applicants to attend. If you are interested in participating in a working session you can register by going to the PDSD website at https://forms.office.com/g/0ARN9n8k2r. Sessions 1 and 5 deal with Neighborhoods and sessions 3 and 7 deal with the Future Growth Scenario Map.
Phase 3 will be critical to determine if the new plan meets with community approval. We encourage you to participate in these working sessions. PDSD staff needs to hear from residents and neighborhoods about what needs to be in the next general plan.
The Plan must be voted on and accepted by the voters to be implemented. At the moment, some of us are considering asking the Mayor and Council to simply let us reaffirm the current PlanTucson 2013 in order to give staff the appropriate time and tools to create a better vision for Tucson that acknowledges and respects our unique neighborhoods and cultures.
Thank you all for spreading the word about these community-altering initiatives and projects that are in the works. We need many, many residents involved if we are to have any impact on the outcome of these plans.
Bonnie Poulos (poulosbt@gmail.com) and
Colette Altaffer (colette.altaffer@gmail.com)
on behalf of the TRRG Core Team
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READER RESPONSE: Earlier in the year (before our wonderful summer vacation) we received an email from a reader who had concerns about comments made in BogNews in opposition to the mass murder being inflicted on the Palestinian people by Israeli forces in response to the Hamas attack on October 7th. We were specifically critical of the refusal by the Tucson Mayor and Council to pass a resolution in opposition to the genocide (with the notable exception of council member Lane Santa Cruz from Ward 1). The exchange lasted longer than anticipated, but it was on the whole a thoughtful dialogue, of which we now share with BogNews readers in several installments. The name of the writer has been extracted since we did not get permission to publish their name.
It should be noted that these exchanges happened between April 24th and May 12th of this year, so some info may be dated (for example, these comments were months before the bloodless coup against Ol’ Joe Biden). But we thought it worth publishing.
Part 1 can be reviewed below:
PART 1: OPENING A DIALOG ON ISRAEL AND PALESTINE
1. April 24, 2024
Hi Bogg Man,
I have the feeling that we are living in a time of silos, where we talk to others who agree with us, but not with those who don’t. After reading your letter, as a recipient of your emails, I am hoping you would be willing to consider a different perspective.
You mention the words cease fire and genocide, but you do not mention the atrocities of October 7, the documented mistreatment of the hostages, and the fact that Hamas has rejected a cease fire proposal that as a starting point, would stop the war for six weeks, potentially lead to the end of the war, and would release all of the hostages.
I am your neighbor, a progressive democrat who voted for the members of the city council and the mayor. I support so much of what you do, and many of the causes you champion from women’s rights and voting rights to participatory governance. Like you I believe in cultural equity, democracy and democratic pluralism.
Like you, I mourn the tragic loss of Israeli and Palestinian lives, and wish for peace. For me, this is a personal issue. My friends and family live in Israel, and through them I know of individuals who lost their lives on October 7. My ancestors are buried in my tribal homeland, a place the Jewish people have inhabited continuously for over 3,000 years. This is not an abstraction, it’s something that impacts me personally.
Like you, I am opposed to the horrors of war. The Hamas surprise invasion of Israel, a sovereign democratic and indigenous state, that started with the early morning systematic slaughter and rape of men women and children on October 7, is a day that will live forever in my memory. Hamas started this horrible war, and I am saddened that you did not mention the 133 hostages held for over 200 days in captivity. We know from the testimony of released hostages that treatment for these women, children, elderly and men is inhumane.
I feel your letter reinforces centuries old Anti Jewish stereotypes, tropes and caricatures;
For example; the language you use to describe the only Jewish nation in the world, paints a false and damaging picture, or portrait of Israel as a monolithic entity, that is “violent, colonist, unjust, racist, apartheid, illegally stole land.”
Israel was established after the Holocaust, at a time no nation would accept Jewish refugees. Israel is a pluralistic democracy, the majority of its citizens originate from Middle East and North African (MENA) nations. Since 1920 over 900,000 Jews were displaced from their homes in Arab and other Muslim countries. Many of these refugees made their new home in Israel. You also do not mention that Israel is home to more than 2 million Arab people in Israel proper, who share all the same rights as everyone else.
Additionally your support for “resistance” has not been qualified in your message. For example, Hamas charter since its inception, and to this day, has called for the destruction of the state of Israel. Hamas has controlled Gaza since 2005 and has not supported elections in the Gaza strip, killed members of the Palestinian opposition, and systematically persecutes women, children and the LGBTQ community in Gaza, none of which are mentioned in your message. You do not mention the Hamas leadership of billionaires living in Qatar, perpetuating the war in order to achieve their ends while those in Gaza suffer the consequences. Imagine living in a country where October 7 occurred, and seeing your relatives, friends, and neighbors killed, tortured, and taken hostage. What would be your response?
I feel your message fosters anti Jewish attitudes and bias in Tucson neighborhoods, schools and civic life;
Jewish individuals who defend Israel’s right to exist, provide an alternative experience or perspective; are subjected routinely to bullying, demonization and shunning. This behavior is justified because Jewish individuals are labeled as “white nationalists, colonist, settler, genocide, apartheid, unjust, racist”. This bias, or litmus test is a double standard that constitutes a distinct and dangerous form of Jewish hatred. Historically we have seen such language metastasize into horror, such as we saw on October 7.
At a time that demands opposition to dangerous white nationalism which is growing right here in Tucson, your message further alienates and silences one of the minority groups being targeted.
Everyone should feel welcome, safe and able to participate in the civic life of Tucson, regardless of their religious or ethnic background, tribal and cultural beliefs, traditions and rituals. Your message, intentional or not, feels misdirected, uninformed and insensitive. I should be permitted to have a voice, to be able to call for the release of hostages, to amplify the voices of Israeli Women and countless others—to advocate for a humanizing approach to this tragic crisis—without fear of intimidation or retribution.
I hope that we can establish a dialog that respects all human life: Palestinians, Jews, Muslims, Christians, living in Israel, living in Palestine, and living in the United States.
Sincerely,
R
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2. April 24, 2024
Dear R:
Thank you very much for your heart felt comments (and criticisms) of the perspectives I share in Bog News. I always try to consider different perspectives than my own (I have been wrong enough on enough occasions to try and be open). Your letter deserves a full and respectful response which I will send you when I can sit and take the the necessary time to respond to your statements, some of which I agree with.
Thank you again for taking the time to respond and I look forward to opening up a dialogue with you on these important topics.
Sincerely,
Scott Egan (the Bogman)
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3. April 25, 2024
To Boggmann:
Thank you very much for your reply! It is helpful to know that we can agree to discuss these things calmly, and learn from each other.
I am certainly no fan of war, oppression, or hate anywhere it exists. I would support a cease fire resolution that provided for the release of the hostages and justice for the victims of October 7 and as a result brought a complete end to the war. I would imagine that a majority of Israelis and Palestinians would agree, if only their leaders would allow them to have a say in the matter.
Best of luck to all of us, and to all of humanity!
Cheers,
R
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4. April 27, 2024
Dear R
Thank you very much again for contacting me about the opinions expressed in the recent Bog News regarding the decision by the Tucson Mayor and Council to refuse to consider issuing a statement calling for an Israeli ceasefire in the war against Palestine. As I mentioned in my initial response, I wanted to take the time to give you a thoughtful response to your criticisms. I hope this endeavor will encourage an open and productive exchange of perspectives between us.
Perhaps it would be good for us to start with where we clearly agree. You state:
“Everyone should feel welcome, safe and able to participate in the civic life of Tucson, regardless of their religious or ethnic background, tribal and cultural beliefs, traditions and rituals.” AGREED!
“I should be permitted to have a voice, to be able to call for the release of hostages, to amplify the voices of Israeli Women and countless others—to advocate for a humanizing approach to this tragic crisis—without fear of intimidation or retribution.” AGREED!
“I hope that we can establish a dialog that respects all human life: Palestinians, Jews, Muslims, Christians, living in Israel, living in Palestine, and living in the United States.” AGREED!
In fact I could not agree with you more on each of those statements! You also state:
“I am your neighbor, a progressive democrat who voted for the members of the city council and the mayor. I support so much of what you do, and many of the causes you champion from women’s rights and voting rights to participatory governance. Like you I believe in cultural equity, democracy and democratic pluralism.”
Thank you, I really appreciate those comments. We seem to be mostly in agreement on the principles you articulate here, although I should clarify that am not a registered Democrat (I am independent) and did not vote for the mayor or most of the members of our city council. However, I would generally count myself among those in support of progressive causes and what you righteously call “democratic pluralism.” So these are good starting points of agreement as we engage (and possibly diverge) in more difficult areas.
For example: would it be presumptuous to assume that we both support a two state solution, with separate and independent Israeli and a Palestinian states? I realize that neither of the extreme sides — Hamas nor the Bibi Netanyahus of Israel — support such an establishment. Both sides — Hamas and Likud — have publicly pronounced their claims to all the land “from the river to the sea.” Indeed, as has been reported (and confirmed by a former Israeli Prime Minister) Netanyahu has been financially supporting Hamas for years. They are in essential agreement of the basic point: they want to wipe out the other.
There are, of course, some who also oppose a two state solution not because they want to exterminate the “others” but because they want everyone in the region to be a part of a non-sectarian, representative, democratic state that treats all its citizens equally. Whether it is doable or not is another question, but they would say they support the type of “democratic pluralism” that you and I agree is a good form of governance. This is very different than a “Jewish state for the Jewish people” or an “Islamic Republic” (whatever the hell that is).
I realize that the success of a secular state in the region has a myriad of complications (such as what right of return would exist for anyone who has been exiled, deported, or displaced) but I thought this might be a good jumping off point for our discussion.
How do you envision a future solution, and how do you think we/they can get there?
I look forward to our continued dialog, and thank you agin for reaching out.
Sincerely,
Scott Egan
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5. April 29, 2024
Hi Scott,
Thank you very much for your email. We do have some common ground, don’t we?
As to your question, how can we make sure that Palestinian and Israelis lives are honored and respected going forward, that is a difficult question to answer isn’t it?
First the good news: the experience of Ireland shows us that two peoples, divided by religion, can overcome their past hatreds and learn to live together, don’t you agree? Certainly the final chapter hasn’t yet been written, but it seems to me Ireland is in a better place now than it was, say, 30 years ago.
Next, a caveat. Why is there so much attention on Israel, a small country halfway around the world? Why is there not more outrage at the Republicans’ willingness to appease Vladimir Putin and bring Ukraine to the brink in their honorable fight against Russian oppression? Where was the campus outrage when the government of Syria decimated their own population in order to hold onto power? Why is there not outrage at Iran for providing financial and technical incentives for the killing of innocents and the creation of Hamas billionaires? Are pro-Palestinian protesters really planning on disrupting the Democratic Convention this summer, revisiting the playbook of 1968 and potentially handing the presidential election to Donald Trump, who promoted treason against the peaceful transfer of power, and who is also an appeaser of right wing hate groups? Who is providing financial support to the pro-Palestinian protesters, since it was observed that may of the tents at the Columbia University protest were purchased from the same supplier?
Regarding a two state solution, what would this even look like, when Yasser Arafat rejected the plan for a two state solution in 2000, reportedly on fears that he would be killed if he agreed. The rejection of the peace deal then lead to the Second Intifada, and more horrific killing of innocent people in suicide bombings. If Yasser Arafat could not convince his people to accept the two state solution, what hope does the world have that Mohammed Abbas could agree to it, and gain acceptance for it?
Regarding a single state solution, I am not as opposed to it as you might think. However, even if the right of return was put into the constitution, constitutions can be changed. So, this is a potential solution, if the hatred can be abated.
But let’s also think about this in a different way.
When all the Jews in the Middle East were kicked out of the Arab countries after 1948, did Israel place them into refugee camps and forbid them to integrate into society, and tell them to wait for their return to their former countries? No, Israel welcomed them as full citizens. So were the Ethiopians, years later.
Similarly, Lebanon, Jordan, and all other countries with refugee camps should welcome the Palestinians who moved to their countries with full citizenship rights, including freedom of movement, the ability to migrate, vote, and everything else.
The Gaza Strip was part of Egypt from 1949 to 1967. When Egypt signed a peace treaty with Israel in 1979, they refused to take back the Gaza Strip. Egypt has also prevented the migration of Palestinians from Gaza to the Sinai during all conflicts, including this latest one. Egypt is a military and economic power that could provide protection and economic opportunities to the Palestinians in the Gaza Strip. Egypt should agree to the return of Gaza to Egyptian territory and welcome the residents of Gaza as full citizens of Egypt.
Similarly, the West Bank was part of Jordan from 1948 to 1967. In 1994, Jordan signed a peace treaty with Israel but refused to take back the West Bank. Jordan is an economic and military power that could provide protection and economic opportunity to the Palestinians in the West Bank. Jordan should agree to the return of the West Bank to Jordanian territory and welcome the residents of the West Bank as full citizens of Jordan.
So, those are my thoughts.
Best of luck to all of us!
Sincerely, R
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6. April 29, 2024
Hey R: good to hear from you again.
You certainly got my attention when you mentioned “the experience of Ireland” as I am more knowledgable and more involved regarding that struggle than any other international one. I have close family and personal ties there (and returning this summer) so I appreciated the mention. I often see specific connections between the two struggles even though there are many differences. There may be lessons gleamed from the Irish developments for certain.
To begin with, British imperialism had a direct involvement in the divisions and continued problems in both regions (they did coin the term “divide and conquer). The Balfour Declaration in Palestine — and the future boundaries of Israel —were crafted by the British, as was the creation of “Northern” Ireland as a separate entity from most of the island, and against the wishes of a majority of Irish people. Balfour was, as you may be aware, a raging anti-Semite whose English solution to “the Jewish question” was to ship them all somewhere else, anywhere else. Anti-Semitism was a distinctly European phenomenon that they wanted to dump off on others. Africa and other places were considered for a Jewish homeland before selecting the land of the Palestinians (who were considered dirt poor farmers who wouldn’t resist. Mistake). The founders of Israel who set up “a Jewish state for the Jewish people” had the exact same sentiment that the pro-British “Loyalists” of northern Ireland when they professed that their six county statelet would be “a Protestant state for a Protestant people.” They too thought of themselves as “the chosen ones.”
Secondly, the centuries of cruel subjugation by a foreign entity fostered multi-generational resistance to foreign domination. It is something that the powerful always seem to forget, that oppression always leads to resistance (sometimes violent, sometimes not) whether it be on the city streets of Belfast or Gaza (or, indeed, in the Warsaw Ghetto). I think it was George Orwell that said (paraphrasing) that when he sees someone being beaten in the street by a cop he doesn’t have to wonder whose side he is on. Most of the world looks at the mass murder of poor and starving men, women, and children by one of the strongest military machines in the world and also (instinctually and intellectually) sympathize with the under-dogs. The 2,000 pound (American) bombs dropped indiscriminately by the Israeli forces on one of the highest population density regions earth seems like, well, GENOCIDE to most of the world.
The Irish, like the Palestinians, like George Washington, like Nelson Mandela, also felt the need to use armed struggle against an occupying force, and while the Irish Republican Army primarily hit the Crown security forces and tried to avoid civilians (as Hamas and the IDF have NOT done) there were still some atrocities committed by them. These incidents, while sometimes horrible, did not discount the right of Irish citizens to determine the course of their own country, any more than the terrible Hamas attacks nullify the rights of Palestinians for their own national state. While the Irish “Troubles” were transpiring between peaceful protesters being shot in the streets of Derry City and bombs going off in London, the British government displayed the same “stiff upper lips” that Bibi and his gang advocate today: refuse to negotiate with adversaries and adopt a strategy to totally wipe out the enemy.
Of course “the enemy” is never totally wiped out, are they? Hamas is still fighting and are starting to re-occupy the northern part of the Gaza strip that has mostly been annihilated. The Brits had to come to the conclusion that they could never totally wipe out the I.R.A. and after London’s financial district was blown to bits they realized that the continued occupation of another people would not be profitable in the end. I remember those days well, where people would argue with me saying “the Irish will never stop fighting!” and that their centuries old conflict could never be resolved (so why try to struggle for peace). They were all wrong. The Good Friday peace accords have created a climate where these battles are fought in the halls of government and through peaceful protest and compromise. Now I may see the unification of Ireland in my lifetime (although I am as old as sin). The Israelis certainly have a lot to learn from the Irish, who are perhaps the most sympathetic Europeans to the plight of the Palestinians. In fact, if you every go to Belfast there still exists a “Peace Line” between the native Irish nationalists and the pro-British unionists. On the Irish side you will see many murals in support of Palestine. On the unionist side you will see many murals in support of Israel. Settlers relate to settlers, those who suffer from colonialism bond with fellow anti-colonialists. This is also why South Africa has played such an important role in bringing Israel to the International Court of Justice.
You ask the question “why is there so much attention on Israel, a small country halfway around the world?” Well there are about 300 billion reasons why, which is about how much aid the U.S. has sent to Israel since its founding (see: https://www.cfr.org/article/us-aid-israel-four-charts). You mention the terrible governments in Syria and Iran, and I agree, but we are not shipping off more than $3 billion dollars of our national treasure every year to the other countries. We have no control over Iran, and the only part of Syria we control is their oil fields that we occupy. As for Ukraine, I am afraid we will disagree on that but perhaps we should stay on the subject at hand: Israel’s war against Palestine. It is our money and our bombs that are decimating Palestine, and it right that it gets our attention.
You asked “who is providing financial support to the pro-Palestinian protesters, since it was observed that may [sic] of the tents at the Columbia University protest were purchased from the same supplier?”
Forgive me, but this comment from you made me laugh at loud! I first thought you were joking. You see a conspiracy behind tents? Really? Nancy Pelosi said the same thing about the protesters in front of her house, that they were probably financed by Putin (!) and she wanted an F.B.I. investigation of anti-war protesters. A personal note here: when the first occupation of Columbia University happened in 1968 I was 15 years old and heard the call to join, which I did. We occupied Colombia for days as we held the police off until our anti-war statement was heard. We were (of course) all called communists and cowards and worse for being in opposition to the Vietnam War and the military-industrial complex. Now students opposed to the war on Palestine are called anti-Semites and/or terrorist supporters, or laky’s for Putin, or whatever. It’s the same slander game that was perfected by Goebbels who explained how easy it was to get Germans to support fascism:
“It was very easy, it has nothing to do with Nazism, it has something to do with human nature. You can do it in a Nazi, socialist, communist regime, in a monarchy and even in a democracy. The only thing that needs to be done to enslave people is to scare them. If you manage to find a way to scare people, you can make them do what you want.”
Anti-Semitism is real and is scary. But there is a world of difference between being anti-Zionist and anti-Jewish, although it is in the best interests of the Israelis to blur the line. Do you really think people need to be bribed or to be on some foreign payroll to find mass murder abhorrent? Are all the Jewish students who are taking part of these protests, of which there are many (like in Jewish Voices for Peace), just dupes or self-hating Jews? Can we not just disagree without having to cast aspersions on the motivations of those on the other side? You and I disagree, but we haven’t cast aspersions on each other. And I hope we never do! Let agree to disagree without being disagreeable to each other. Perhaps we can both learn from each other.
As to you statement:
“When all the Jews in the Middle East were kicked out of the Arab countries after 1948, did Israel place them into refugee camps and forbid them to integrate into society, and tell them to wait for their return to their former countries? No, Israel welcomed them as full citizens.”
I find all of this factually inaccurate, but perhaps you have information that I don’t and would really appreciate anything you could send to back up these statements. My understanding is that there are many Jews living peacefully in many Arab countries (as they were living peacefully with the Christians and Muslims before 1948). As for your contention that Israel has not placed Palestinians in refugee camps: there are many. What do you call Gaza? Rather than a refugee camp, an open-air concentration camp may be more accurate, How would you describe Gaza, as the overwhelming majority there are refugees from lands now occupied by Israel?
As for your statement that “Lebanon, Jordan, and all other countries with refugee camps should welcome the Palestinians.” You also mention Egypt’s refusal to accept Palestinian refugees. Why should any of these countries be forced to accommodate a problem created by Israel? And why should any Palestinian agree to be displaced to another country that they don’t live in? On that basis, wouldn’t it be more just to request that the European, American, Australian and other recent immigrant to Israel go back to their native countries rather than evicting people who have lived in Palestine for generations? I am not proposing the eviction of anyone, but why should only the Palestinians be told to leave? Haven’t they suffered enough?
You also mention that “Yasser Arafat rejected the plan for a two state solution in 2000.”
I would also be interested in seeing your source for this statement, which I believe is also inaccurate but am more than willing to look at any evidence you can provide. I had thought that all sides had agreed to the two-state solution, although it is impossible to implement as Israel keeps changing its borders (and keeps acquiring more Palestinian land for settlements in clear and consistent violation of international law).
OK: tag you’re it!
All the best,
Scott
PART 2 (of 3) OF THIS DIALOG WILL BE PUBLISHED IN THE NEXT ISSUE OF BOGNEWS! (It gets better!).
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from the bog 